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I was playing this afternoon ( for a change, instead of doing the CS), and it occured to me that once you reach a certain level the guards are no longer a deterrent to crime. Even High Ordinators are really nothing more than walking 100,000 gold coins....
This set me thinking...it would probably be a pretty simple thing to create levelled lists of guards...guards that get tougher in proportion with your own skill increases...guards which are just as fearsome to a level 50 character as they were when you first stepped off the boat.
Any thoughts?
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Iudas
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At the risk of starting an offtopic discussion, PumaMan did a mod just like this. I think it is still on his website.
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i dont think you would need leveled lists i think just having all the guards with 100 skills in combat specialisations would be a deterrent, its not realistic to have the guards getting better as you do though. It would also make getting a death warrant a lot more risky.
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on leaving school emersed in philatroic (notions of a kind these days i find unthinkable) I pulled my frail frame onto my charger and rode off into the sunset, with agenda predicatable. Fresh faced and tragicaly convinced that blind faith could make an infantile normative, playground theory of social interation.
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Galley
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A hard call really. On one hand, you're right, they just become money making tools for certain people. On the other hand, there's a reason you're a strong as you are, because of the whole mythology issue, being neverar reborn and so on.
Overall though yeah, it'd be nice to have strong guards, methinks.
I'm in favor then of making a leveled guard script.
I think also a script to make selling guard armor illegal would help too.
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I like the idea of levelled guards... This way if they attack, you'll always have a chance, but it'd still be a tough fight..
Then again, I try to keep guards from attacking me as much as possible.. Even when I'm evil, it's good to keep a low profile as far as criminal activity goes. 
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I'll check that out, no point in duplicating what soemone else has done, especially someone who produces quality stuff like PumaMan
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Iudas
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Levelled Guards and Ordinators make a lot of sense to me. Other than merchants, who else does the PC potentially interact with so often?
The 5 types of NPCs: Quest givers and quest assistants. Seen a few times and then the PC moves on.
Victims of the PC: Holders of quest items, creatures, smugglers, seen once and then they die or the PC restarts from a save.
Place holders and area fillers: All the "little folk" whose purpose is to tell rumours and give advice....spacefillers.
Bosses.....there for the blowoff one and done
Merchants and guards and travel services: You keep going back to sell stuff or buy stuff but the merchants never get any smarter or anymore immune to the PC's smarm. And the guards eventually become walking 100K septims banks because they too never get any better.
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BlindEye
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What if the guard armor was changed to have no gold value...?
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But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
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DarkOneVenzar
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Quote:
What if the guard armor was changed to have no gold value...?
That AND they were levelled. That would be kinda pointless but hey. I think leveled guards, Ordinators, Royal Guards, and High Ordinators woudl make sense. I mean after all other train too. Look at cops today, they are always learning new techniques and stuff so they technically would be levelling too. So if someone made a leveled guard mod I would download it because I liek the idea.
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Xarathos
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after a certain point in the game. its so easy to just find a couple of daedra and sell their weapons that money is no problem. changing the value of the guard armor would make almost no difference. they need to be stronger.
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NuclearDope
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yeah but u have to go FIND the daedra they aren't walking around towns in numbers
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Point taken : )
I'll have a look at it later on this week.
In the mean time, I'll look at Puma man's guards just to make sure they are'nt leveled before I start making lists.
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But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
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The only problem I can see with it is from a purist point of view, so if you don't care, skip this post.
If the guards could level up just like you, then why would they bother spending extra funds and time getting you to do things for them. They could just as well train to do it themselves, and then order someone that is strong enough to take care of it.
No one will spend money they don't have to.
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Well, what means "purist"? 
(You don't need to answer.)
The only reason for this plugin is game balance, and imho it would do a very good job on that.
Better to just leave it with that justification; thinking up some "realistic" reason why guards attain level 50+ is bound to be unconvincing.
That the PC can get ridiculously high levels and skills in very short time is a major balancing issue of MW anyway; that's difficult to alleviate and still stay "realistic".
So - if that plugin of PumaMan's isn't what you think of (don't know it), I'm all for such a mod.
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Well they have to spend some time running around yelling SCUM at me and some more time sneaking up behind and whispering "We're watching you." And still more time learning to say "Move Along."
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The daedric weapon oversupply can be handled by modifying a few levelled lists so that the drops are way less frequent at low levels.
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I suspect that if the guards were levelled that the value of their armour would be much less relevant. Remember the game AI is dumb so an NPC has to be about 2.5x the PC's level to give the PC a good fight.
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cyran0
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I would play with a mod that created greater penalties for breaking the law. The strange thing is, my character is lawful anyway, so I have to wonder why I care. Perhaps I won’t feel quite the sucker for not looting everything in sight if I know there are real consequences.
I am not in favor of leveled guards. I believe, as others have hinted, that there comes a point when the player’s skills should eclipse that of the guards (and most other NPC’s). Even still, the player will find away of disposing of the 50th level guard, no matter how many times he is forced to re-load the game. BlindEye has some interesting suggestions involving game settings that make penalties greater for criminal behavior, but they may still have only a limited effect in deterring crime. Perhaps the best way to keep a player from breaking the law is to seriously inconvenience him…shut him off from information. Damage the player’s disposition with NPCs to the point that his ability to complete quests is challenged (dare I suggest, even the main quest  ). Yes, I know there are work-arounds with charm spells, so perhaps make so some quest givers simply won’t offer work to murderous thieves…even the Morag Tong has standards, after all!
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BlindEye
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I checked Puma Man's Advanced Guards; I may be wrong but, I think the highest level for a guard in his excellent mod, is 30; seems a little low to me...
His drop rates for expensive weapons are 0; which means a level 30 player can go to the weapon candy store anytime he or she feels like it, which kind of takes the thrill of finding a rare weapon out of the equation.
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But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
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Thanks for taking the time to look over my ideas cyran0.
I play thief/stealth characters all the time, so I guess the mod comes from my interest in making that style of play more difficult
I would'nt like to make things too stringent, like tampering with quests and especially the main one, because that would make that style of play redundant.
You have Interesting Ideas though.
Hopefully (if I get it right) Traders and NPC'S in general will not talk to you if your bounty is too high... so you have to either spend a long time in prison and suffer the stats drain, or come up with the cash without adding to your already high bounty.
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But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
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cyran0
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Quote:
Thanks for taking the time to look over my ideas cyran0.
Thanks for sharing them, I learned a lot. If you don't do something with your ideas I may.
I, too play with stealth, but it's more about taking from outlaws and avoiding confrontation. I find it (as I suspect you do also) a more challenging style of play. I don’t want a system that takes stealth play off the table; but we both know that it can be greatly exploited. My self-imposed law-abiding play is to prevent me from taking advantage of a largely unsupervised world.
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How about as the player's crime level rises so does the level of the guards like bounty hunters and such.
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Caine
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I've been working for a little bit on a small mod that makes guards stronger, however they don''t level up as you do.
It's kind of like this:
Every town gets a makeover of guards. The stock guards become "Patrolers" and "Guards" stand at the entrance(s) of towns, armed with spears. Archers take positions along shorelines and in battlements.
Every town too. Whether it be great house town or an Imperial town. Also every guard has had his/her level raised by 10. I've finished the Imperial towns on the mainland, and I'm gonna do the great house ones next. then I'll move on to Bloodmoon and Tribubnal guards.
Maybe you'll find it interesting?
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